Digital Money World

30 opinions for e-gold Hits The Wall ! Government Seizes Major Agents’ Accounts

• tdinoz
  Apr 27, 2007 at 6:48 am

  Spread, latest news to LGE members
  http://tdinoz-td.blogspot.com/

  http://tdinoz-td.blogspot.com/2007/04/london-gold-exchange-news-e-gold.html

• steve
  Apr 27, 2007 at 9:02 am

  It is over for e-gold?

  What about non-USA users of e-gold?

  What’s next? Pecunix? E-bullion?

  I think the only safe one is WebMoney since it is Russian (thank God!)

  Cheers!
  steve

• drunkonlife
  Apr 27, 2007 at 10:07 am

  That is not good news. You have to wonder what is likely to happen next. The future of digital currencies has definitely taken a turn for the worse.

• The HYIP Blog » Blog Archive » e-gold Hits The Wall! Government Seizes Major Agents’ Accounts
  Apr 27, 2007 at 10:31 am

  […] http://digitalmoneyworld.com/ […]

• Dollars Blog » Blog Archive » 1mdc.com and other E-gold exchangers shut down.
  Apr 27, 2007 at 12:49 pm

  […] 1MDC uses e-gold. Im surprised to hear this as I believe 1mdc has close ties with E-gold. It also mentions that some other exchangers were frozen. People in China are reporting that E-gold blocked their use of proxies. I can’t seem to find anything on E-gold news page for official word on any of this. I did find some more reading on Digital money world […]

• Mark
  Apr 27, 2007 at 4:27 pm

  Pecunix is still going strong. As far as I know, we have completely avoided any interference from authorities. Pecunix has never been involved with any failed HYIP (we remove HYIP’s from Pecunix as soon as we discover them). In short, Pecunix has all the attributes needed to continue successfully. —-quoted from a list earlier today and accurate.

• e-gold Hits The Wall! Government Seizes Major Agents’ Accounts at No Bullshit HYIP Blog, A Part of No Bullshit Network
  Apr 27, 2007 at 6:15 pm

  […] http://digitalmoneyworld.com/ […]

• steve
  Apr 27, 2007 at 10:37 pm

  Mark,

  It does seem (as of this writing) that it is only 1mdc that has made a “self-regulated closure or suspension” and e-gold does not seem to be affected. I think the effect on e-gold was temporary since there seemed to have a type of “bank-run” (panic-selling)on the e-gold as a currency.

  As you mentioned, pecunix would be a good e-gold alternative since it is also “use-able” at various auto-exchangers.

  Goldmoney does not seem to be affected since they have a “CAP verification system” similar to moneybookers and so they know who their customers are…unlike e-gold.

  In my opinion, 1mdc was “dodgy” from the start since “why have a dgc within a dgc”…it just does not make sense.

  E-bullion is scary too since they have many ties to the USA, Goldmoney is basically more “off-shore”.

  Will be keeping track on the latest info here in your great website. All eyes are focused here right now for the latest “facts” and not speculation.

  Cheers!
  Steve

• win bet
  Apr 28, 2007 at 8:59 am

  Great!!! INFO
  Thanks very much

  Regards,
  http://trick-winbet.blogspot.com

• Mark
  Apr 28, 2007 at 9:12 am

  Steve yes, it sort of looked that way in the afternoon, but now the indictments have been made public we know its not just 1mdc. Looks bad for DGCs.

  Thanks Steve.

• VoipHero
  Apr 28, 2007 at 10:38 am

  I hope e-gold will not close , and even more secure with better Identification documents for every accounts, so people will use egold more respectable as good payment solution.

  —————————————
  Free call around the world Freecall.com

• steve
  Apr 29, 2007 at 8:54 am

  Mark,

  Thanks for the prompt responses.

  If e-gold only followed the path of moneybookers’ and goldmoney’s verification process, maybe they would not have encountered this dilemma.

  E-gold became a money-laundering instrument due to their anonymous way of going about their business. Even WebMoney has a verification system and maybe Pecunix & the other dgc’s should start one too.

  If everyone is “verified” properly, then all these scammers would not be able to scam anyone.

  Just my opinion.

  Steve

• Nostradumbass
  May 1, 2007 at 8:17 pm

  I disagree with Steve, financial privacy is as fundamental to liberty as freedom of speech. What you or I do with our money is our own affair. Denying governments information about the identities and sources of funds isn’t money laundering, its end-user controlled financial privacy.

  There is no way to ‘properly’ ID many financial service users as laws and the reliability of such IDs vary dramatically from place to place. The primary reason E-gold is so inexpensive is because it does not spend money on this useless quest.

  No one is forcing anyone to use DGCs.

  You know, the irony here is that the Feds operate an institution which meets all the criteria mentioned in the indictment… popular with criminals, kiddie porn peddlers, investment scammers, drug dealers, etc. and whose product provides (without extensive forensic assistance) complete transactional anonymity to buyer and seller. It’s popularity in these circles, and the liabilities associated with it, are widely known.

  It’s known as the U.S. Mint, and the product is cash. Benjamins.

  The Feds are stating here, loud and clear, that while they devoutly wish cash would just disappear, they’re willing to take second best, and makes sure that no digital equivalent of it emerges.

  Nostra

  ————–
  “The only freedom which counts is the freedom to do what some other people think to be wrong. There is no point in demanding freedom to do that which all will applaud. All the so-called liberties or rights are things which have to be asserted against others who claim that if such things are to be allowed their own rights are infringed or their own liberties threatened. This is always true, even when we speak of the freedom to worship, of the right of free speech or association, or of public assembly. If we are to allow freedoms at all there will constantly be complaints that either the liberty itself or the way in which it is exercised is being abused, and, if it is a genuine freedom, these complaints will often be justified. There is no way of having a free society in which there is not abuse. Abuse is the very hallmark of liberty.”
  — Quintin H. Hailsham, The Dilemma of Democracy

• steve
  May 2, 2007 at 6:25 pm

  I disagree with the comments of Nostradumbass that payments should be anonymous.

  Digital Currencies are made for business purposes and not HYIP’s or Ponzi Schemes wherein the owners of these scams want to be anonymous.

  In business, you should know your customer and there is an agreement of goods or services transfered or shipped.

  If the transfer of funds is anonymous, it is simply money-laundering because it goes under the radar of the law.

  That is why GoldMoney is doing a good job in verifying their clients unlike e-gold.

  The days of anonymous payments will be ending soon and it would be good for the world of online transactions.

  The most affected by the identity-verification trend would be the scammers who want to remain anonymous and give excuses that it is an invasion of their privacy.

  Get real… even WebMoney requires verification…

  Cheers!
  Steve

• Gowtham
  May 4, 2007 at 11:37 pm

  So , you guys are saying , that egold is gonna be shut down? any specific “dead”line?

  But egold has given a strong answer to this indiction.. they said : ” it cant be considered as money laundering , bcoz of moneytransfers wihtout money transmitted license , bcoz they arent doing moeny transfers but gold grams transfers”

  I just pray to god they dont shut down!

• Micahel White
  May 6, 2007 at 10:45 pm

  Steve,

  I really like how you say I’m a crook because I don’t like anyone tracking my finances. It is MY money, I worked hard for it, and I will spend it how I want, as long as I’m not harming anyone else. And I don’t like ANYONE looking into my business. Why? Because it’s MINE. That’s the problem with many people who worship the law and state - they never got past the stage in life where they think everything in the world is theirs.

  Anything that is tracked, is soon restricted. Just look at the airports. You used to be able to take a wad of cash, buy a plane ticket, and go anywhere in the world without showing an ID before boarding. Then it was ID checks. Then airport checkin counters turning people in for buying tickets with cash. Now there’s no fly lists - something the government can put you on for no reason, and is unaccountable. You’ll never get off the list if they don’t want you to.

  Can’t you see the same happening to DGC? Soon, all DGC transactions will need to be tracked, no matter how small. There’ll be “frozen” accounts due to political maneuvering. Pretty so, DGC will become nearly unusable. After all, it’s a competitor to most governments. DGCs (especially those foolish enough to set up in the US) will not be left alone, no matter how much they bend over backwards (and bend us over forward).

  BTW, if you’re not sure who you’re dealing with, don’t send them stuff. And if you want tracking, then use another service. It’s that simple. That’s why the market offers alternatives - because people want different things.

  Micahel

• Mark
  May 7, 2007 at 4:46 am

  Ironically, Steve is NOT a US person and Micheal is! The fact of the matter….any financial business in the US, whether through the US banking system (Western Union, ATM etc) or not after 9/11 it is aggressively tracked. If you don’t agree you can always move to the EU or run for Congress. Since mid last year, the US gov is working to also lock down all financial online business in the hopes to prevent further terror financing, who can blame them. So whether you are in the US, or simply doing business with US persons, you are now going to get scrutiny and your online transactions reviewed. Your tax dollars at work, I suppose and as inconvenient as it may work out, most US people feel if it protects them from the bad guys, its OK with them. I tend to agree with this, you vote for these people and that is what you get.
  Michael makes a good general point, he made the money, leave it alone. The reality of the situation is when the government takes a look at your money, if you are not doing anything wrong, then your money is fine. They are looking for the bad guys and if you are not one, no worries. If you don’t like that situation, move out of the US or vote in some other politicos and change your system. IMHO in the case of e-gold, Steve makes a super valid point in that if e-gold is in the US, they may want to start either crafting favorable legislation for DGCs and work that angle or change their system just a bit to better include the rules of where they operate. What’s the harm of having a stated AML policy on their site? What would that take, all of 10 minutes to add? WTF. Or of course move here to sunny Panama where life is good.

  Mark

• Mark
  May 7, 2007 at 5:06 am

  “”…..So , you guys are saying , that egold is gonna be shut down? any specific “dead”line?….

  I don’t think anyone can 100% say that e-gold will be shut down in fact just the opposite, they seem to be doing business as usual. I think a lot of people are concerned that the .gov will not let up in their persecution, opps sorry prosecution. What do I mean?…..if this case, through some miracle, goes away without major changes, US upgrades, licensing and compliance at e-gold Ltd and most likely all US agents, another case or two from the .gov will follow.

  The only person I’ve ever read about who was not afraid of such a direction in life or business was John Gotti!!

  And….the outcome of so much spent money on the .gov’s part usually is some final and very restrictive new regulations. See Keywords:

  NETeller
  Online Gambling
  etc
  etc

  Mark

• Mark
  May 7, 2007 at 5:24 am

  ….” it cant be considered as money laundering , bcoz of moneytransfers wihtout money transmitted license , bcoz they arent doing moeny transfers but gold grams transfers”..

  Regarding this statement, I agree as do most, under today’s specific rules but I also don’t agree that this is the ’spirit’ of the law as its written. Laws are enacted to prevent and stop bad situations, even if your business does fall outside the exact wording, it may still violate the ’spirit’ of the law. Now that is OK, if no one ever told you or pointed out there could be a problem. However after years of not only pointing this out and even prosecuting these avenues if you still say, read the law…we’re legal….shit you will be in for a big fight. IMHO that is what has happened. Get the heck out of the US, or you better start complying with the ’spirit’ of the current regulations. I wrote about this months ago:
  http://digitalmoneyworld.com/pt-3-of-3-understanding-this-comment-%e2%80%9canyone-using-e-gold-can-end-up-in-jail%e2%80%9d/#more-286
  February 26th, 2007
  If you follow this logic, it becomes pretty obvious that it is NOW their responsibility to know who is using their digital money. Follow me here…if you are in the US and receive a Western Union transfer for over $700, picking up your legal cash not only do you have to provide ID, but they also now require one hand of fingerprints! So, to stop terrorist funding, WU will take your prints, ID, signature, current address, phone and video tape the entire transaction for anything $700 and up.

  If a ‘person to person’ WU transfer of just $750 now requires fingerprints, does it seem proper or logical that a few minutes later that same person can go to his PC and privately transfer $7000 in e-gold with no verification of his identity? Does that seem to keep with the spirit of the law to prevent terror financing? Does this sound proper, “let’s track all Western Union transactions of only $700 or more but ANYTHING e-gold transfers is off our books and we don’t care?” Hmmm…

  Mark

• Mark
  May 7, 2007 at 5:43 am

  READ THE INDICTMENT—–
  Digital currency was used for on-line commerce and for funds transfers between individuals for non-commercial purposes.

  While technically speaking, the owner of digital currency could have had some right to acquire the actual metal behind the currency, digital currency users typically converted their value into a national currency when they wanted to take value out of the on-line system.

  E-GOLD advertised on its website that it is “an alternative Internet payment system” that “empowers people to use gold as money.” E-GOLD advertised its service as “Better Money,” and “Internet Payments 100% backed by Gold.”

  Under 18 U.S.C. Section 1960, it is a felony to conduct a money transmitting business without the appropriate state license (in a state that has a licensing requirement and punishes such operation as a misdemeanor or felony) or federal registration,

  What it appears they[gov] are going to say is that ‘e-gold claims [gold is money] and [better money] and [Internet Payments] so they recognize gold is money and were in fact transmitting ‘money’ (gold)

  Read the indictment closers and you can recognize this direction.

  Also by this logic, agents are conducting money transactions (MSB.gov) whether in the US or NON US but transacting with US clients, e-gold exchange agents should soon be required to be MSBs.

  With this case, the US gov wipes out DGC use in the US, labels agents as MSBs, DGC issuers as money transmitters and restricts the transactions of DGCs in the US just like Western Union would, SAR, CTRs etc.

  Is this bad? Not necessarily, legal and licensed— you may see DGCs being sold by every existing MSB agent in the US. Licensing and regulations paved the way for PayPal’s global domination. If in fact that happens to DGCs, and that is a HUGE ‘if ‘ then DGCs could then also become a household phrase. e-gold is, after all, a much better way to do business online, even Bill Gates recognizes that. Low fees, no chargebacks……
  Mark

• Nostradumbass
  May 15, 2007 at 9:53 pm

  [url=http://www.newmediajournal.us/staff/ehrenfeld/05032007.htm]How Terrorists Send Money[/url]

  [Yet another example of how powerful interests are able to openly operate financial networks with demonstrated appeal to the villains major governments profess to target, but a small operator like E-gold, with little if any similar demonstrated societal risk, is indicted.]

  Terrorism Dr. Rachel Ehrenfeld & John Wood

  May 3, 2007

  Advanced mobile technology, cooperation between international mobile
  communications providers and international financial institutions and the
  lack of regulations make for a swift, cheap, mostly untraceable money
  transfer — known as “m-payments” — anywhere, anytime, by anyone with a
  mobile telephone.

  ….

  The only applicable federal reporting requirement to providers of stored
  value cards is the Currency Transaction Report rule. A CTR must be filed
  for all cash transactions greater than $10,000 per day. However, the CTR
  can be filed up to 15 days after the transaction has occurred, giving
  terrorists and criminals enough time to disappear.

  Furthermore, although almost all U.S. m-payment service providers are
  registered as Money Services Businesses with FinCEN, the regulations do not
  have specific provisions pertaining to them. Moreover, the government is
  already constrained by international privacy and secrecy laws, as in the
  Cayman Islands, Cyprus, Belgium and Panama.

• Charles
  May 21, 2007 at 7:53 am

  I’m amazed that e-gold didn’t simply APPLY for a license in D.C., or just move their operations to another state in the US where the requirements weren’t that high. In most states all you need is about $100,000 in proven assets and an “experienced” staff.

  Here’s the $64,000,000 question: if e-gold had millions of dollars’ worth of transactions, why didn’t they save some cash back home to try to go legit? There are lots of multinational companies based in the States bending backwards to comply with the laws in China and Saudi Arabia. You don’t need to worry about denying the existence of Tibet or Israel when doing business in Washington!

  E-gold is turning THEIR mistake into fear, hype, and conspiracy theories. This is all despite the fact that e-gold’s owners outright lied to their customers by claiming they were operating legally in the United States.

  You don’t blame Highway Patrol for pulling over a driver with no license. Don’t blame the Federal government for taking down e-gold.

• Mark
  May 21, 2007 at 8:19 am

  I’m sure they have good reasons on why e-gold took the action they did or did not. But without getting into technicalities what you have just posted is unfortunately true and its the flip side of the coin. A financial business in the US, whether its in a gray area or not, should still be attempting to comply with US regs and at least with the spirit of the law. Especially after being notified and challenged on it in Dec. 2005. I’ve been saying and writing that for many months. Either hire some great lobbyists, law makers and craft so beneficial legislation towards Digital Currency and change it to what you require, or comply with existing regs….OR move to sunny Panama with me…I’ve got an extra room and server.

  Mark

  Thanks for that last comment.

• Sandra Lipscomb
  May 24, 2007 at 10:36 am

  Lipscombsjos1@hotmail.com
  Ok so if you are doing a hyip just where can you move the e-gold if anybody is moving e-gold? I am
  being emailed with every withdrawal I make, but
  no funds are showing up in my e-gold account,
  and I get no records found when I try to pull up a
  history?

• Iptv
  Jun 26, 2007 at 1:03 pm

  finally omnipay is migrating to africa :-)

• 60 e-gold Exchange Agents, Who’s Still Alive? You Might Be Surprised…
  Jul 19, 2007 at 12:22 pm

  […] like to explore, is just how much of e-gold’s business ‘jumped ship’ when they hit the wall.  Are they fading away into the distant sunset?  One way to calibrate their market acceptance […]

• 60 e-gold Exchange Agents, Who’s Still Alive? You Might Be Surprised… at No Bullshit HYIP Blog, A Part of No Bullshit Network
  Jul 19, 2007 at 12:31 pm

  […] like to explore, is just how much of e-gold’s business ‘jumped ship’ when they hit the wall. Are they fading away into the distant sunset? One way to calibrate their market acceptance might […]

• Motosuha
  Aug 7, 2007 at 10:25 am

  Business is trust and only trust.

  If you open an account and lose everything you put in becauce of gouvernment move - you lose trust.

  If they do so with egold why don’t they do it with bank, stocks and bonds accounts or credit card saldo ?

  If I was a kamikaze terrorist I would not care my name to be mentionned on the payment system I would use for purchasing my bomb.

  For other traditional bad guys it is known to everybody that bad guys always get false identity when breaking away from prison.
  So ID checking is 100% useless.

  By the way it is legal to incorporate a company who is the mother company of a company who is the mother company and so on … This way you can keep you name secret for a while - and a while is often enough for the bad guys.

  Billion of dollars crossed borders illegaly years before internet existed. Since it looks so easy for autorities to take the money on the internet - I suspect bad guys go on doing business the way they did before the internet.

  To be legal or not ? You never know all the laws and if you try to respect all the laws you never do anything but study.

• Alan Dunwiddie
  Oct 28, 2007 at 1:27 pm

  Ironic how the “land of the free” is the first government taking big steps against freedom of movement of capital. First Internet Gambling, and now digital currencies. Sadly, as an EU citizen I don’t expect our leaders to be any more enlightened or acceptant about wanting to monitor or block usage of these systems in the coming years.

• Rick
  Feb 16, 2008 at 11:53 am

  In my opinion the US government wants complete control simply because they are afraid of losing tax dollars. Anti Terrorism is a great excuse. The end result of the governments escalating attempts to control is more and more more money being moved off shore. Not necessarily because of illegal activity’s but for fear of your money not being safe in the us. Lets face it e gold tried to do everything in a legal way in the us rather than starting off shore and it appears that they would have been safer off shore.

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